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The countries Spain and Luxembourg are currently ruled by kings from the House of Bourbon, so I thought I'd try to trace their (patrilineal) ancestry as far back as possible. Well, the Bourbons are descended from the Capetian dynasty, which in turn is descended from a noble family known as the Robertians. The Robertians came to rule France in the ninth century, but before that they were counts of Worms, going back to their namesake Robert of Hesbaye. His ancestors were dukes of Neustria and counts of Haspengau (an older name for Hasbaye), going back to Charibert of Haspengau.

But here I'm hitting somewhat of a dead end. The site that Wikipedia relies upon for all this information doesn't list any ancestors of Charibert. But this site claims that his father was Tassilon I, one of the first rulers of Bavaria. Can anyone verify this claim? (Note that this would be impossible if we go by what Wikipedia says about when Charibert lived, but Wikipedia's own source contradicts that information.)

I'm somewhat skeptical, because Bavaria (in modern-day Germany) is about 400 miles from Hespengau (in modern-day Belgium). But I suppose it's possible that one of Tassilon's sons went on a long journey west for some reason and established a new estate there. (This would be a case of a Frankish nobleman going to another Frankish territory.). In any case, if it is true then that would mean that the Robertians are ultimately descended from the Agilolfings, a noble family that traces its origins all the way back to Hermeric, a Germanic ruler who was an enemy of the Romans.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You in Advance.

  • A substantial number of "karolingische Reichsadel" were from the Haspengouw, It seems strange now how important the Haspengouw was, but this area was a fertile agriculture area in the centre of Austrasia, the powerbase of the Carolingian dynasty. Among them were the first Robertians. – JRB Aug 26 at 23:06
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While, I have not been able to verify the claim that Tassilon the first was the father of Charibert or any other claim as to Charibert's ancestry, I have found many different claims as to who he descended from, most of which are not coming from reliable sources. Neither of the sources you reference are very reliable either, one is a family tree of an individual who traces himself back to Adam and Eve and the other is a crowdsourced family tree trying to link mythical events together with real people. In the end, I believe that I we don't really know the ancestry of Charibert and we will just have to keep wondering.

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At first glance you are asking a simple question that is remarkably complex. How far can we trace back the Robertians (Capets) and other cadet families, including the Bourbons?

Roughly every 25 years there is a new generation. Every child of each new generation has four grandparents, two from each parent, male and female. Add into this mix the time back to the ancient ancestor one is tracing, plus the new research that the Germanic tribes (there is a long line of DNA and academic research of migrations that prove this fact) can be traced back to lines of the lost tribes of Israel, which married local women of non-Jewish families.

Already in this complex mix, one has to add Emperor Charlemagne's dispatch to a ruler in the Middle East, at the time, to send to Charlemagne a Jewish Exilarch to lead the Jews of Septimania in Southern France in battle against the Muslims in Spain. This direct descendant of King David of Israel married a member of Charlemagne's family, and their children were direct descendants of King David of Israel.

I am certain that there are many other complexities that are not known, as of yet; however, the fact is that a Bourbon princess of France, today head of a UN agency, says that the Bourbons, a junior cadet branch of the Capet family, trace their family back to the Julii and Claudii patrician families of ancient Rome.

Although the Princess did not mention the Davidic line, I think it is well-known through the academic work of Australian historian-genealogist David L. Hughes, Ph.D.

Considering the many generations of ancestors, each member of which has four grandparents, it might take decades to assemble all such genealogical records, DNA samples, historical records and other supporting research and documents.

Even more complex, every living breathing human being is related by blood, as discovered by a worldwide DNA laboratory and academic study circa 1992 when DNA became precise. We are never more than six degrees of separation between each of our other living human beings through our multiple generations of four grandparents per person.

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    I'd like to see some references for the points being made here. – Steve Bird Sep 19 '18 at 20:01
  • re "We are never more than six degrees of separation between each of our other living human beings through our multiple generations of four grandparents per person." - Hogwash! The sixth root of 7 billion is about 43.5 and I've never heard of any woman, anywhere, any time, who successfully carried to term, and raised to adulthood, a staggering 43 babies. – Pieter Geerkens Sep 20 '18 at 2:29

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