We know that Nazi ideology explicitly singled out Jews as the main reason for all Germany's problems, and planned to exterminate all of them. Nazis also persecuted gypsies, Polish people, and POWs. Did the Nazis plan to exterminate other races/ethnicities? Were there any indications of this in their writings, propaganda, letters, secret documents? For example, anything against black people? Arabs? Asians? etc?
asked Jan 21, 2013 at 2:06
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6It was Anne Applebaum, I believe, who defined totalitarian regime by the following characteristic loop: pick a minority from your population based on whatever factor, classify them as non-humans, persecute, repeat for another minority. That factor in this case was ethnicity, would be, for her, purely accidental. Next factor could be "people who owned cats".– kubanczykJan 21, 2013 at 9:56
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5@kubanczyk, even in totalitarian theory, which in fact is an agenda rather than a proper theory, much more reasonable criteria has been proposed (and proven useless). The politics of the nazi party adapted pre-existing antisemitism, which was constitutive of german identity decades before the nsdap was founded. Eliminatory antisemitism had been the motivation to found parties even in the end of the 19th century. Declaring the nazi movement could have picked any other group apart from the jewish, like "people who owned cats", is just irresponsibly wrong.– J. KatzwinkelJan 21, 2013 at 17:13
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4@J.Katzwinkel its remarkable then the rapidity with which general German racialism assimilated anti-Slavic exterminationalist racialism between 1939 (when mass executions of ethnic Poles was atypical) and 1941 (when mass executions of people of Slavic ethnicities became typical). I'll agree that there are performative elements of anti-semitism that differ from anti-slavic racialism—torturing the imaginary Slav with pointless work-to-death didn't occur (to my memory). But anti-slavic extermination policies sprang up across administrative boundaries within the German state rapidly.– Samuel RussellJan 21, 2013 at 21:16
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@J. Katzwinkel OK, I retract "purely accidental". I've really meant: the ethnicity wasn't a criterion of Anne's definition at all. Also, I've misused the quotes for cats - cats are my own paraphrase.– kubanczykJan 21, 2013 at 22:08
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3@Histophile You are too hard, imo, on Samuel. He may often speak in a dense jargon (which most people, including me, don't fully understand) and take extreme positions but he is a serious scholar, as far as I can tell.– Felix GoldbergJul 23, 2013 at 7:12
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7 Answers
For the Eastern Europe the Nazis had the Genaralplan Ost - the General Plan "East". According to this plan the large areas of Eastern Europe should be gradually Germanized, with the native inhabitants reduced in number, resettled and/or assimilated.
According to the plan,
Ethnic group Percentage subject to removal
Poles 80-85%
Russians 50-60% to be physically eliminated and another 15% to be sent to Western Siberia.
Belorusians 75%
Ukrainians 65%
Lithuanians 85%
Latvians 50%
Estonians 50%
Czechs 50%
Latgalians 100%
You can notice that the Latgalians, a Baltic ethnic group in Latvia were especially disliked by the Nazis due to their historically pro-Russian attitude. The Nazis even undertook special efforts to prove their racial impurity and inferiority
As to the further plans, you should note that Hitler's attitude towards the Blacks, Asians and other peoples was much better than that towards the Slavs, the Jews and other Eastern Europeans.
In general it seems the Reich would consider it their natural right to genocide any nationalities when the area is needed for Germans.
Judging from the pattern which the Nazis established in their dealings with different ethnic groups, it is reasonable to assume that the Nazis would attempt
To divide large peoples into smaller ethnic groups and by other criteria (religion, language dialect, region etc)
To put a "fuehrer" or "elder" in head of each ethnic group, personally responsible for carrying out the Nazi orders.
To allow a considerable autonomy of each ethnic group in their internal affairs as long as German orders are carried out.
To give expressly different rights in small and in large things to different groups, even closely related so to create envy, hubris and competition for Germans' favor.
To restrict movement of each group to their native homeland. Thus the steppe nomadic peoples would be put in steppe reservations, the mountaineers restricted to their home mountains etc. Only Germans would be allowed the right for free movement.
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4Thanks. But could you please back your numbers and points with solid references? Feb 1, 2013 at 14:06
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Do you have any ideas, why Latvians, Lithuanians, and Estonians were targeted?– user23839Aug 26, 2018 at 17:45
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1@FranzDrollig that would be better as it's own question, rather than a comment on a 5 year old answer. Aug 27, 2018 at 1:21
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Re
you should note that Hitler's attitude towards the Blacks, Asians and other peoples was much better than that towards the Slavs, the Jews and other Eastern Europeans., Hitler's attitude towards others changed on what he wanted. When he needed Slavic Croats, Nazis accepted accepted the nonsense that Croats were descendants of Goths. Whereas on the other hand, Hitler wasn't very fond of the Indo-Aryan people and preferred them to remain subjugated by Britain (Although he again supported defectors from BIA when he needed to do so).– NSNoobAug 27, 2018 at 8:05
"Intentionalism"—the view that Hitler was responsible for German racial policy (as supposed by this question's very title, "did Hitler had a final solution plan")—is not favoured amongst scholars. Therefore, the idea of a coherent plan of racial extermination needs to be done away with. German racial extermination policy evolved situationally and in response to local conditions. German bureaucratic schisms encouraged such creativity. However, repeated refrains of racialist and exterminationist policy appear again and again. This answer considers the Slavic example.
German and NSDAP racial policy was generally quite local in nature, though following similar themes. The Commissar order of 1941 was used as part of a generalised extermination programme relating to Slavic civillians, enacted as part of the pogrom and action programmes of 1941.
Additionally, some of the occupying authorities considered the winter 1941 food problems of Slavic civillians as not needing to be addressed due to the plan to generally starve Slavs to death West of the stop lines. The actual food extraction policies of this period did produce significant starvation as a side effect, however, the idea of extracting the planned levels of food was ludicrous and unachievable. (These plans were based on the idea that German standards of living ought rightly to be maintained at or near pre-war levels through mass starvation of other "racial" groups.)
Much of this culminated in the POW situation in 1941, where encamped soldiers—predominantly Slavic—were systematically neglected in a manner not undertaken in the West by the German Army.
We can be reasonably confident that with more puissance, German racial policies would have resulted in a fuller attempted genocide of people identified by Germans as Slavic.
answered Jan 21, 2013 at 2:19
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2Firstly, I have said nothing of Hitler being responsible of German racial policy. The anti-semtic feelings and hate for the Jews began before there was a Nazi Party. In fact, the DAP party, well before Hitler joined it and converted it into the Nazi party, already perpetuated anti-semtic feelings and hate of Jews. This was also shared by many Germans and other parties too in the 1920's. Secondly, are you suggesting that the extermination process arose while there was need for it? Like to solve food shortages allow people to die? Jan 21, 2013 at 2:59
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3Interesting. I have just been reading "The Third Reich: The rise and fall of the Nazis". It quotes Hitler saying that the Jews must be exterminated even well before the NSDAP was in power. Jan 21, 2013 at 3:10
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3@SamuelRussell: -1 "German and NSDAP racial policy ...local in nature." Flies directly in the face of the well documented history of concentration camps, which contained thousands and thousands of prisoners collected systematically by the Nazis. Document clearly your sources for such contentions. "Read blah blah blah..." is not enough to counter the eyewitness account of General Eisenhower: "I made the visit... in order to be in a position to give first-hand evidence of these things if ever, in the future, there develops a tendency to charge these allegations merely to “propaganda.”– user2590Jul 22, 2013 at 21:37
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2@SamuelRussell"German and NSDAP racial policy ...local in nature."?! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Eichmann: Otto Adolf Eichmann[1][2] (19 March 1906 – 31 May 1962)[3] was a German Nazi SS-Obersturmbannführer (lieutenant colonel) and one of the major organizers of the Holocaust. Because of his organizational talents and ideological reliability, Eichmann was charged by SS-Obergruppenführer Reinhard Heydrich with the task of facilitating and managing the logistics of mass deportation of Jews to ghettos and extermination camps in German-occupied Eastern Europe.– user2590Jul 22, 2013 at 21:39
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3@Histophile <If I may butt in for a split-second> I think you got Samuel wrong. There is a real and valid historiographical debate between so-called "Functionalists" and so-called "Intentionalists". You (and me) come down at the side of the Intentionalists; Samuel is a rather opinionated Functionalist, as far as I can tell. That certainly does not make him a denier. I really urge you to revise that remark, which I am sure was made in the heat of the debate - I must confess my initial reaction half a year ago was quite similar to yours but I took the time to google the terms and to find out Jul 23, 2013 at 7:24
Hitler's Plans for North America
"Hitler actually held the American society in contempt, stating that the United States (which he consistently referred to as the "American Union") was "half Judaized, and the other half Negrified"[78] and that "in so far as there are any decent people in America, they are all of German origin"
"England and America will one day have a war with one another which will be waged with the greatest hatred imaginable. One of the two countries will have to disappear."[86] and "I shall no longer be there to see it, but I rejoice on behalf of the German people at the idea that one day we will see England and Germany marching together against America"."
For an extensive discussion of this entire subject - Hitler's plans for the entire world - replete with references and direct quotations, see: New Order - Nazism
I read about this many years ago - your question jolted my memory a bit so I poked around and found these references.
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2-1 to "North America" featuring in an answer to this question. hitler delivered an awful lot of incoherent visionary "table talk" and sure, he ranted from time to time about America. whereas, for the Jews, the disabled and Slavs (for example) there were documents and blueprints. see Anixx's answer and the "General Plan for the East" Jul 23, 2013 at 12:24
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1there's a historically important difference between what hitler said at table about black people and and what the nazi regime, with its army of civil servants, planned, prepared for and in most cases carried out in terms of extermination of Jews, the disabled and Slavs. to ignore that distinction is "not useful" in my opinion. "Not useful" is the guideline for judging whether or not to downvote. Jul 23, 2013 at 16:14
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2@hawbsl The question states "For example, anything against black people?" and Hitler's NA vision, as quoted, mentions them specifically: "...the other half Negrified" and that is one of the reasons he is happy about "England and Germany marching together against America". The question continues: "Were there any indications for that in their writings, propaganda, letters, secret documents? " not just a clear, formal, organized plan. My answer certainly sheds light on the question. Besides, my reference is a study of Hitler's vision for world conquest, not simply what 'he said at the table'.– user2590Jul 23, 2013 at 16:51
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happy to see our comments turning friendlier. can you help me understand the wikipedia referencing format then. it says for your quote [78] Hitler (2000) p. 188 and [79] Hitler (2000) p. 282. What do those refer to? i assumed they were from Hitler's famously boring ranty Tischgespräche but i could be wrong Jul 23, 2013 at 17:32
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@hawbsl-OK. Let us establish a 'cease fire agreement' :-) I cannot go into this now - maybe later. As per my profile, I am not a professional historian or academic -I was a professional researcher for many years. I am trained in finding pertinent references quickly, using either books or the internet. But I cannot always give in-depth analysis of all the material I cite except for the American legal system;biblical tradition;the French Revolution. I am no expert on Hitler, although I was born in the early post war period and saw and heard many first hand accounts in the USA and overseas.– user2590Jul 23, 2013 at 17:56
One must remember that blacks, Asians and other races were a non-issue for Hitler and the Nazis since they were practically non-existent and very few in Europe at the time. I grew up in Europe and never saw a single black person in all my life before the 60s. The only black persons we saw were American sailors with the US Navy when ships stopped in our ports.
Also looking at the statistics of how many people like Gypsies, Slavs and political opponents were in concentration camps we can see how we have been misled by the propaganda that concentration camps were all or mostly Jews when facts and common sense says that this was not so.
Whole groups, probably amounting to millions, like gypsies, homosexuals, and other ethnicities, as also communists which was a big Party in Germany at the time were also put in concentration camps. But this is scarcely ever mentioned with the whole emphasis being on just the Jews.
Establishment of a greater German Reich with all German population and wide Germanization were to be implemented after final victory; Europe was to become utterly Germanic; We know from a reported discussion between general Eduard Wagner and Himmler that the latter suggested extermination of 80% of the French and English populations after said victory, the remainder were to be terrorized, and the murder was to be carried out by the SS Einsatzkommando...not difficult to imagine this strategy being implemented to all other people of Europe at a later time...
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_(Nazism)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_%28Nazism%29#Conquest_of_Lebensraum_in_Eastern_Europe
also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Order_%28Nazism%29#Military_campaigns_in_Poland_and_Western_Europe
in particular note in the last link:
In late February 1943 Otto Bräutigam of the Reich Ministry for the Occupied Eastern Territories claimed he had the opportunity to read a personal report by General Eduard Wagner about a discussion with Heinrich Himmler, in which Himmler had expressed the intention to kill about 80% of the populations of France and England by special forces (einsatzgruppen) of the SS after the German victory.
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1@LangLangC what Hitler wanted to do is a big secret. He himself said there were secrets that he shared only with inner circle, there were secrets that he kept only to himself, and there were secrets that he did not formulate even for himself yet.– AnixxNov 6, 2017 at 23:48
Apart from Jews only Sinti and Roma have suffered worst from the Holocaust (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinti). I can't think of any other ethnic group which endured anything similar under the Nazis. The holocaust was extended to include them.
There was a plan for the Holocaust at least starting with the Wannsee-Conference in 1942 (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wannsee_Conference). One can argue that it had always been Hitler's intention.
Hitler was trying to eradicate anyone who was not of the Aryan race, but he mostly focused on Jews, homosexuals, and people with physical or mental deformities or issues. He may have turned on other religions or ethnicities if they did not agree with or fit his narrow beliefs.
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