Clearly, Oğuric-speaking tribes must have been in the Mongolia·Manchurian borderlands before the fifth century, and the Oğuric - Common Turkic division must have taken place by then. These correspondences constitute further evidence that the early Turkic-speaking community, before its various migrations, was located in the east, near Mongolic speakers.

 

These Oğuric groupings represent some of the earliest Turkic peoples about whom we have some knowledge. None of them bore the ethnonym Türk. The Oğuric homeland is clearly in the east. Indeed, the Byzantine source Priskos (b. 410?, 420?, d. post 472) reports that the migration of Oğuric tribes to the Pontic steppes, where they came into the purview of Constantinople, began in Inner Asia, touched off by the expansionist activities of the Avars, ca. 450.54. Immediately prior to that, Oğuric tribes appear to have lived in the Kazakh steppe and Western Siberia, having come there from points further east - perhaps in late Xiongnu times. They may have already at that time been in contact with Ugrian peoples.

 

At the time of their migrations, the Oğuric groupings appear to have been part of a larger, loose and still ill-defined confederation of nomadic tribes extending in an arc across Eurasia from Southern Siberia and Northern Mongolia to the Western Eurasian steppes.

The discovery of elaborate nomadic burials at Pazyryk in the Altai Mountains in the 1930s and later at Arzhan in the Tuva region gave new focus to the debate, and it has been conventional in the Russian literature to describe all these cultures as Scythian and to divide the time span covered into three phases: a pre-Scythian and initial Scythian period dating from the ninth to mid-seventh century; an early Scythian period from the mid-seventh to the end of the sixth-century; and a classical Scythian period covering the fifth to the third century.

 

The first phase, which can be more conveniently called the formative stage, includes the Tagar culture of the Altai-Sayan region and the two burials at Arzhan, which, as we have seen, are the result of local developments from the indigenous Karasuk culture. It was in this region that horse-riding nomadism developed, associated with archery and Scytho-Siberian art styles. Since this distinctive package does not appear in the Pontic steppe until the late eight century, a logical interpretation would be to argue that "Scythian" culture originated in the Altai-Sayan in the ninth-century and spread westwards, reaching Pontic steppe during the next century. If this is scenario is correct -- and it broadly conforms to the views of Herodotus -- then we have to accommodate the fact that predatory normadism, practised by the Cimmerians, may already have been under way in the Pontic region, possibly even as early as the ninth century, before the Scythians arrived.

Clearly, Oğuric-speaking tribes must have been in the Mongolia·Manchurian borderlands before the fifth century, and the Oğuric - Common Turkic division must have taken place by then. These correspondences constitute further evidence that the early Turkic-speaking community, before its various migrations, was located in the east, near Mongolic speakers.

These Oğuric groupings represent some of the earliest Turkic peoples about whom we have some knowledge. None of them bore the ethnonym Türk. The Oğuric homeland is clearly in the east. Indeed, the Byzantine source Priskos (b. 410?, 420?, d. post 472) reports that the migration of Oğuric tribes to the Pontic steppes, where they came into the purview of Constantinople, began in Inner Asia, touched off by the expansionist activities of the Avars, ca. 450.54. Immediately prior to that, Oğuric tribes appear to have lived in the Kazakh steppe and Western Siberia, having come there from points further east - perhaps in late Xiongnu times. They may have already at that time been in contact with Ugrian peoples.

At the time of their migrations, the Oğuric groupings appear to have been part of a larger, loose and still ill-defined confederation of nomadic tribes extending in an arc across Eurasia from Southern Siberia and Northern Mongolia to the Western Eurasian steppes.

The discovery of elaborate nomadic burials at Pazyryk in the Altai Mountains in the 1930s and later at Arzhan in the Tuva region gave new focus to the debate, and it has been conventional in the Russian literature to describe all these cultures as Scythian and to divide the time span covered into three phases: a pre-Scythian and initial Scythian period dating from the ninth to mid-seventh century; an early Scythian period from the mid-seventh to the end of the sixth-century; and a classical Scythian period covering the fifth to the third century.

The first phase, which can be more conveniently called the formative stage, includes the Tagar culture of the Altai-Sayan region and the two burials at Arzhan, which, as we have seen, are the result of local developments from the indigenous Karasuk culture. It was in this region that horse-riding nomadism developed, associated with archery and Scytho-Siberian art styles. Since this distinctive package does not appear in the Pontic steppe until the late eight century, a logical interpretation would be to argue that "Scythian" culture originated in the Altai-Sayan in the ninth-century and spread westwards, reaching Pontic steppe during the next century. If this is scenario is correct -- and it broadly conforms to the views of Herodotus -- then we have to accommodate the fact that predatory normadism, practised by the Cimmerians, may already have been under way in the Pontic region, possibly even as early as the ninth century, before the Scythians arrived.

TED's answer: West Asia? (additional info and sources)

I have read the answer by T.E.D -- which is the only answer that seems worthy of consideration (the others are inchoate). We can learn a bit by what he is saying. In this, I hope to help clarify, not to repudiate, because I am no more qualified to answer this question than TED.

TED prefaced his answer saying that it is the mainstream view. I have no idea what is mainstream, but I disagree with Wikipedia in this instance.

Historical Linguistics: West Asia? (additional info and sources)

I have read the answer by T.E.D -- which is the only answer that seems worthy of consideration (the others are inchoate). We can learn a bit by what he is saying. In this, I hope to help clarify, not to repudiate, because I am no more qualified to answer this question than TED. And, more often than not, he is correct on history of linguistics of Eurasian cultures.

The answer was prefaced with it is the mainstream view. I have no idea what is mainstream, but I disagree with Wikipedia in this instance.

If we take modern-day Iran (linguistic identity) and Turkey (geographical identity), confusion will set in. The important thing is to NOT to do this. There was an earlier question regarding Turkic people and the Mongols - where I explained the linguistic and biological genealogy (with reference to the Altaic languages).

So we are looking much further back in time - 850 BCE, when neither Iran nor Turkey existed. A better approach is to look at it from a migratory perspective, i.e. where did they come from. The correct term here is ethnogenesis.

The predatory nomads who moved into the Pontic steppe after the departure of the Cimmerians were known to Herodotus as Scythians. They had, he believed, come from beyond the Volga, from somewhere in Central Asia. The archaeological evidence shows that the earliest Scythian burials, dating from the mid-eight to the fifth centuries (BCE), were scattered across the steppe across th steppe between the Don and the Danube with particular concentrations in the Kuban region north of the Caucasus, the valley of the Dnieper, on the Crimean peninsula, and along the coastal steppe as far west as the lower Danube.

Where did they come from? My answer is Central or East Asia and this seems to be key difference between TED and my answer. Instead of relying on Wikipedia, I will show 2 different quotes from 2 respected scholars -- a historian and an archaeologist -- and both placing early Scythians and Oğuric-speaking Turks in Central or Eastern Asia (along the Eurasian steppe corridor):

• On Scythians, we have Herodotus, Russian archaelogists, and now Sir Barry Cunliffe placing the origins (formative years) in either Central Asia or Altai-Sayan (East Asia?). But linguists, however, according to TED's reading of Wikipedia says otherwise, i.e. West Asia.

• On Oğuric-speaking Turks, again, Peter Golden places them in Southern Siberia - Northern Mongolia (east), but, again, Wikipedia says otherwise (west).

If we take modern-day Iran (linguistic identity) and Turkey (geographical identity), confusion will set in. The important thing is to NOT do this. There was an earlier question regarding Turkic people and the Mongols - where I explained the linguistic and biological genealogy (with reference to the Altaic languages).

So we are looking much further back in time - 850 BCE, when neither Iran nor Turkey existed. A better approach is to look at it from a migratory perspective, i.e. where did they come from - "the formation and development of an ethnic group". The correct term here is ethnogenesis (i.e. origins).

The predatory nomads who moved into the Pontic steppe after the departure of the Cimmerians were known to Herodotus as Scythians. They had, he believed, come from beyond the Volga, from somewhere in Central Asia. The archaeological evidence shows that the earliest Scythian burials, dating from the mid-eight to the fifth centuries (BCE), were scattered across the steppe across the steppe between the Don and the Danube with particular concentrations in the Kuban region north of the Caucasus, the valley of the Dnieper, on the Crimean peninsula, and along the coastal steppe as far west as the lower Danube.

Where did they come from? My answer is Central or East Asia and this seems to be key difference between TED and my answer. Instead of relying on Wikipedia, I will show 2 different works from 2 respected scholars -- a historian and an archaeologist -- and both placing early Scythians and Oğuric-speaking Turks in Central or Eastern Asia (along the Eurasian steppe corridor):

• On Scythians, we have Herodotus, Russian archaelogists, and now Sir Barry Cunliffe placing the origins (formative years) in either Central Asia or Altai-Sayan (East Asia?). But linguists, however, according to TED's reading of Wikipedia says otherwise, i.e. West Asia.

• On Oğuric-speaking Turks, again, Peter Golden places them in Southern Siberia - Northern Mongolia (east), but, again, Wikipedia says otherwise (west).