Timeline for Did Franco ever refer to his regime as Fascist?
Current License: CC BY-SA 4.0
32 events
| when toggle format | what | by | license | comment | |
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| Feb 12, 2021 at 14:40 | comment | added | Leif Willerts | @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica well, in answering that interesting question, you opted to make a sweeping statement that "just about anyone can be called Fascist", and not in the sense that it's physically possible, but in that the term is diluted to that extent, "essentially meaningless". I objected to that. | |
| Feb 12, 2021 at 4:08 | comment | added | Italian Philosopher | @LeifWillerts OP here: you're losing me. did Franco say "I'm a Fascist and proud of it"? end of question. | |
| Feb 11, 2021 at 22:59 | comment | added | Leif Willerts | @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica I mentioned that as an example of a political faction members of which aren't exactly frequently called "fascist", which I would contend is for a reason: That OPs claim that "just about anyone can be called a fascist" is technically correct (you can call them that, it's not impossible to utter the words), but in fact wrong (you'd often be considered wrong by anyone not extremely prejudiced against whomever you are calling that). | |
| Feb 9, 2021 at 23:37 | comment | added | Ne Mo | The part where you said something contradictory just before. | |
| Feb 8, 2021 at 23:27 | comment | added | Jos | @NeMo What part of "In real life more of a military opportunist, who grabbed his chance." don't you understand? | |
| Feb 5, 2021 at 6:23 | comment | added | Carlos Martin | @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica The Francisco Franco National Foundation, which preserves Franco's documentation, has also the same text for that interview. I also despise Franco, but I'm certain that he said those words and the text has not been changed. | |
| Feb 5, 2021 at 0:11 | comment | added | Italian Philosopher | @LeifWillerts Your point? You are the first person to mention "libertarian" here. This is not a current-politics-in-USA question, it's a question specifically about Franco in the 30s to see if he self-identified Spain as Fascist. | |
| Feb 5, 2021 at 0:07 | comment | added | Italian Philosopher | @CarlosMartin You are correct . Yes, it is on a site called generalimofranco.com, but if that's the actual he said then that puts the wikipedia quote in a very different light and not a very flattering one. It's not so much a mistranslation as a deliberate omission of the immediately preceding sentence. No, not a Franco fan, not in the least, but still. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 21:30 | comment | added | Leif Willerts | @Jan: well, it did indeed become the generic term for all of them. That doesn't mean you can't call specifically the NSDAP and related entities "Nazi" if you mean them in particular. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 21:28 | comment | added | Leif Willerts | I'd challenge OP to find, say, a libertarian that can be in any reasonable sense of the term called "fascist". (No, it doesn't count to just lower your epistemic standards to those followed by pretentious partisans in the dysfunctional democracy that is the US) | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 21:06 | comment | added | Jan | @Pieter Geerkens: btw I think you might also want to read up a bit about the role of the SPD in the Weimar republic. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 20:14 | comment | added | Jan | @Pieter Geerkens: These comments are concerned with the first sentence of the second paragraph of this answer, which currently reads "Fascist became the generic term for all of them after WW2.". Which is a very surprising statement from a German point of view (as well as for a number of other point of views I think) | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 20:07 | comment | added | Pieter Geerkens | @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica: Please find the original Spanish for that interview - to protect against translator bias. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 20:06 | comment | added | Pieter Geerkens | @Jan: Referring a Communist Party of Germany - SPD: Sozialdemokratische Partei Deutschlands - propaganda fund raising device alleging the connection is very different from what is being asked - which pertains to self-identification. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 20:03 | comment | added | Jan | @Peter: finding German-language examples for Nazism being described as Fascism is really quite trivial because that equation was so common. That is why I really find this "only after WW2" a bit strange. Another example: commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/… | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 20:00 | comment | added | Peter - Reinstate Monica | (Whether Franco called or considered himself Fascist -- the OP's question -- is a separate question which @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica has addressed.) | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 19:59 | comment | added | Carlos Martin | @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica I went to the original interview and before those lines quoted in Wikipedia, Franco said "Nuestro Movimiento no corre peligro alguno de sufrir deformaciones extranjeras. Tampoco corre el peligro de "fascistizarse" y aún menos de "marxificarse" -- That is: "Our Movement [the name for falangism] isn't in danger of suffering from foreign deformations. It isn't in danger, either, of turning into "fascism" and even less into "marxism"". So, he clearly said Falangism wasn't fascist. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 19:57 | comment | added | GeoffAtkins | Just because a word is misused doesn't mean it loses its meaning. "Decimate," being an obvious and less controversial example. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 19:56 | comment | added | Peter - Reinstate Monica | The English Wikipedia page en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism has a reference to Bert Brecht's Fünf Schwierigkeiten beim Schreiben der Wahrheit, an essay in which his references to Fascism seem to include Germany. He doesn't mention any specific country though -- he saw Fascism in a Marxist-historical perspective as a logical endpoint of Capitalism, not as an issue of specific nations. The main statement in this answer is wrong. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 19:43 | comment | added | Peter - Reinstate Monica | @Jan Good finds. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 18:30 | comment | added | Italian Philosopher | btw, Franco, did apparently tangentially refer to his movement as Fascism in a 1938 interview. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 17:45 | vote | accept | Italian Philosopher | ||
| Feb 4, 2021 at 15:47 | comment | added | Jan | "Fascist became the generic term for all of them after WW2." This is patently false. German election poster from 1932 that calls Nazi rule "Fascism": ebert-gedenkstaette.de/pb/site/Ebert-Gedenkstaette/get/… Russian poster from 1929 that associates the Svastika with fascism: meisterdrucke.com/kunstdrucke/Deni/777034/… | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 15:22 | comment | added | Kevin | Just because people misuse a term doesn't make it meaningless. Facism is a well defined ideology in political science. Among other things it is hyper-nationalist, xenophobic, and tends towards authoritarianism. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 14:36 | comment | added | Ross Presser | @ceejayoz Equally laughable, considering the original meaning of the terms, are "liberal" and "conservative" as used today in describing US politics. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 12:38 | comment | added | ceejayoz | "just about anyone can be called Fascist" Pretty much all political labels work this way. Biden gets called leftist and socialist, which is equally laughable. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 12:00 | comment | added | Ne Mo | This is incorrect - Franco was not a 'Falangist'. He was not a member of the pre-war Falange, only its 'chief' from 1937 when it was transformed from a fringe group into an instrument of Franco's control. Ideologically Franco was flexible, but on the traditionalist right, favouring the Catholic church, which the 'real' Falange did not. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 6:26 | history | edited | Jos | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 4, 2021 at 5:54 | comment | added | Danila Smirnov | @ItalianPhilosophers4Monica I don't think Hitler ever referred to himself or NSDAP as fascist in an official speech, even though he did admit being inspired by italian events. These regimes were all called "fascist" by external observers, since the similarities are obvious; but for those political parties it was an image thing - that they emerged from their people, from the nation, not just followed Mussolini's example. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 4:29 | history | edited | Jos | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
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| Feb 4, 2021 at 4:23 | comment | added | Italian Philosopher | Yet, Hitler is very much associated with Fascism so would these 3 governments at times have said "we're all the same thing" (before Franco decided to sit out WW2)? I wonder if could edit the question to reflect this. | |
| Feb 4, 2021 at 4:20 | history | answered | Jos | CC BY-SA 4.0 |
